User talk:Adamant1

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Concern trolling

And I suppose [this] isn't concern trolling? I proposed two names that were roughly as succinct as what you had, but less misleading, and you went with this dissertation-length alternative. - Jmabel ! talk 03:04, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but I must have missed your messages. What names did you propose? I can always re move the files to new categories if the names I came up with don't work for whatever reason. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Look in the history of this talk page (shortly before you more or less blanked it), you'll see what I wrote. - Jmabel ! talk 19:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel: I just archived the discussion because it seemed like it was over and my talk page was getting long. Regardless, I see that you suggested ""Temp cat for Adamant1's postcard template check." Assuming that's what your talking about that wouldn't be correct because I wasn't the one who came up with the idea to use the maintaince categories to begin with. I don't think its helpful to use category names as a way to single out or point the finger at particular users either. No other maintaince are that way, and again, it wasn't even my idea to begin with. Although something like that could work guess, but I still rather come up with a better solution long term. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Then leave out "Adamant1's"; I thought it was all your project and basically a user category. - Jmabel ! talk 01:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

No, the maintaince categories already existed to a degree as part of Commons:WikiProject Postcards. The creation of these specific ones were originally suggested by Stefan Kühn further up in the original discussions. I'm just the one who got dog piled over it for some reason. I can just leave out "Adamant1's" from the categories though. Your suggestion is certainly better then what I came up with. --Adamant1 (talk) 01:45, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully I get the right category: I make the category to a hidden category. See this change. - @Adamant1: All this maintaining categories should be "hidden cateories". So they will not harm an other users. - @Jmabel: I hope this will be ok for you. If there is another problem please speak out this at Commons talk:WikiProject Postcards. I think together we will find a solution. --sk (talk) 05:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Greetings and some notes

Hi Adamant1, just some quick notes:

1) Thank you very much for renaming the maintenance category which includes my photographs! The new name is long but it has several clear advantages:

• it avoids the term “misdescribed” (which implied wrongly that the user who has described the image has made an error);
• it makes clear what the category is about; and
• it makes clear that there is no need for action on the images themselves.

Especially the last point is important. I have seen more than once that new Commons users come along and stumble over old maintenance categories, templates etc. by users who are no longer active; then the new users often misunderstand the meaning of these leftovers and have a hard time to figure out their real significance. By using clear category names, template descriptions etc. we can avoid this. So if you ever consider to rename the category again please keep the new name clear.

2) The problematic word “postcard” on the description page of my photos originates from my credits template. Therefore it makes sense to add your maintenance category via that template, too. I have done this; now all images which use that template (and hence contain the word “postcard”) are auto-categorized into your category. Therefore I have removed the explict category from all my files, it is no longer needed there. If you ever want to rename the category again, just go to the implementation of the template, click “Edit”, search for the <includeonly>...</includeonly> part and rename the category there – all files will be recategorized automatically.

3) You could use the same approach with files from other users, too. If the word “postcard” is added via a custom template, just go to that template, edit the code, search for a <includeonly>...</includeonly> part (if there is no one, add it) and add the category there instead of adding it to any file. This is a much faster and much more flexible solution than adding the maintenance category manually to each single file.

4) If you want to quote/link a category, just type [[:Category:Category name]] (note the leading “:”) or {{c|Category name}}. Using {{Category:Category name}} will not link to the category, but embedd the description page of the category into your text.

Best regards, – Aristeas (talk) 12:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Aristeas: The problem with adding the category via the licensing template is that it just re-adds the images back to the custom search for some reason. Therefore making the category totally useless. So do you know why that might be the case or have a solution for it? Otherwise I don't think it should be done that way. Not that I think it matters how the category is ultimately added to the file to begin with, but there's zero point in doing it through the template if doing so doesn't even solve the problem that the categories were created for in the first place. As an alternative is there a reason that the word "postcard" can't just be removed from the template since it's not really necessary anyway? I think that would be the easiest route to deal with this. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

BTW, I knew that wasn't going to work to begin with. That's why I repeatedly asked people to leave things alone until I was done and dealt with it myself. Now I just have to work around the files until you fix it on your end when I shouldn't have to because I was going to deal with it properly. No one has any patience on here though. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

The one who has not got any patience is you, my friend. Probably you just need to wait for some hours; the Mediawiki software and search need some time for category changes etc. done via templates. If waiting some hours does not help, there must be just something wrong with your search if it does not handle a category which was added via a template.

But taking the degree of competence into account which shows itself here, and the degree of patience and gratefulness you show when people try to help you with your funny postcard search, I come to the conclusion that it is better not to invest more work into this issue. I have removed all uses of “postcard”, “Postkarte” etc. from my template. If my files still appear in your search results, please be patient and wait – as said above, the Mediawiki software and search need some time to keep track of such changes.

I just hope that this helps. I fear soon another eager user may come around and start a similar project to search for uncategorized books – simply by searching for “book”. Then we need to remove that word from all files and templates, too. And what will come next? In the end the whole approach to find uncategorized x by a simple search for the word “x” is oversimplified and will always cause problems. – Aristeas (talk) 08:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it, but what might or might not happen in the future isn't really my issue. We'll see if you removing the word "postcard" from the template works though. I don't see why it wouldn't. But your images were still showing up in the search a while ago, which I assume was before you made the change. I've been dealing with this for at least a couple of months now and it never takes that long for the Mediawiki software and search to update things. Either it happens almost immediately or there's something else going on. Although I guess whatever it was is a non-issue now since you removed the word from the template. Thanks again for doing that. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:10, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. – Ah, maybe I have found why the template approach and the search did not work together. Do you still use this search query? Then it cannot find categories added via templates because it explicitly searches the source Wikitext for “postcard” categories. Adding -deepcat:"Images misdescribed as postcards" at the end of the search string should fix this – it excludes any files contained in any of the subcategories of Category:Images misdescribed as postcards. On the other hand we can probably abbreviate the search by skipping filetype:bitmap because filemime:image/jpeg already excludes any non-bitmap files. So the complete search string would be now:

postcard filemime:image/jpeg -insource:/\[\[Category:.+?ostcard.+?\]\]/ -deepcat:"Images misdescribed as postcards"

Maybe this can be helpful if you have do deal with other people who want to add maintenance categories via templates. Best, – Aristeas (talk) 08:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)