File talk:Air Force Ensign of India (2023).svg

Discussion about rename

Hello, I would like to check if there is a consensus to rename this file to File:Air Force Ensign of India (2023).svg to File:Air Force Ensign of India.svg and to replace the redirect, since that would be more accurate. We should wait for enwiki and other related projects to fix templates like en:Template:Country data India and templates at wikidata:Q5818710 first though if this goes through as to not cause errors. Pinging involved editors: @Fry1989, Chatsam, KylieTastic, Johnj1995, Sumanuil, Billinghurst, and Paine Ellsworth —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - useless contributions} 17:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I have no opinion regards if it should be the current redirect target File:Air Force Ensign of India (1950–2023).svg or File:Air Force Ensign of India (2023).svg. However I can image some uses on enwiki may want to use the old one and some the new one but that issue still stands as an issue now with the current use. If we assume in most cases the new one is correct then the move can be made. Just let the moving admin to the delete and move in one go, don't add templates or delete the redirect first in a separate actions causing lots of errors until the process is complete. KylieTastic (talk) 17:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

My position is that this question has already been answered by longstanding practice when a country changes its national flag, such as Kyrgyzstan just did. Flag of ... is the standard name for a national flag currently in use, and that practice should be extended to all other such flags as air force ensigns, naval ensigns, and the like. I do not understand why this is a problem. Fry1989 ^eh? 20:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment You'd be better to always have the base name as a redirect to the current version of a flag where they seem to go through a history of update. Renaming flags is just a right pain in the arse to tidy up and fix and find usage when these are so heavily templated. Ideally getting them in a series, putting them into a Wikidata for the flag of the country would make this so much easier, resilient and robust.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The easiest way of dealing with this issue, I find when a flag is changed, is to simply rename the old flag to include the dates of use without a redirect and then move or upload the new flag under the Flag of ... filename space. The problem is nobody ever thinks of doing it that way. I would have here, but somebody beat me too it and renamed File:Air Force Ensign of India (1950–2023).svg with the redirect intact. Fry1989 ^eh? 16:23, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

So is someone going to move the damned thing or not? This is getting ridiculous. Fry1989 ^eh? 16:14, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

From the page's history, it appears that the move request has been declined by editor Billinghurst: [image page history]. P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 17:49, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: To be accurate, I declined at this time (put it on hold as best I could) and pointed the discussion here. The problem with Fry1989's approach is that it may be easiest for him, it doesn't equate with the existing tools, the existing policy, it causes issues at sites and there is a better way to do it in 2024 with the existence of Wikidata and templates. Plus the structure of the flag templates (emanating from enWP) allow for multiple versions of flags through history through multiple parameters.  — billinghurst sDrewth 20:19, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

It's not about making things easy for me. It's about doing the right thing, which is to follow Commons file naming conventions and not holding up one file for non-existant reasons. This is a farce. This same issue has been dealt with countless times over the last 15 years as countries, states, provinces, and cities have changed their flags. It has always been dealt with in a matter of days from when the change took place. Why are you holding this one case up? Fry1989 ^eh? 17:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)